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Post by Kohaku on Mar 11, 2010 21:41:31 GMT -5
please read all of this before you judge me.... my mom was reading this article: www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/mar/10031114.htmlI asked her what she was reading cause I was curious. she tells me what the article says then proceeds in saying "I think that was a good choice for the school to make" I dont agree one bit and i let her know that then she sat there telling me im stupid and asked me if i would stick up for someone if they thought killing ppl was ok ... first of all that has nothing to do with sticking up for gay's and lesbian's they aren't hurting anyone else. I have a gay cousin getting married in a few months and her and my dad has told all of us that they don't want us around him anymore cause he's a bad influence. This is one thing I have a HUGE problem with my cousin is my best friend and has always been. But god says to respect you parents right?I have a strong belief that hanging around gay's isn't going to turn you gay. It's not like that , nor do gay's want it that way .... they just want to be happy not having to hide who they are. Isn't that what we have been taught our whole life be who we are and don't change for anyone or anything? Unless you are gay than you need to change. Does that sound just to you? .....anyways i think i'll just stop there those are just my opinion's towards this particular thing.
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Post by Jayda on Mar 11, 2010 22:45:51 GMT -5
Okay, don't worry - I'm not going to judge you one bit. I have a gay uncle and him and his partner are two of my favorite people! I read that article earlier today and I think it is kind of ridiculous the actions they're taking towards this. She just wanted to wear a tuxedo. I can understand the 'bringing your girlfriend' thing to an extent, but I could go to prom with my female friends - would that be a problem? I'm not a lesbian. I think their reaction is over the top. HOWEVER, the church is for Prop 8 in California, the church does not approve of the gay lifestyle, and God does not approve of the gay lifestyle. Look at Soddom and Gumorrah. They were two cities full of gay people (not all gay, but a lot, if I'm remembering correctly). God didn't approve of the way they were living - they were going against His word, so He destroyed them. The church agrees that you shouldn't change yourself for anyone. Although, that is mostly said assuming that you're living a righteous life. If I'm wrong, please forgive and correct me. But if you're sinning you should change at least that part of you. I went through a period where I had a huge potty-mouth. I was sinning, thus I had to make that change. Don't change your personality to fit in, don't change who you are, but if you're sinning you do need to change that part of you. That part of you is not how you're eternal spirit is supposed to or should be. Does that make sense? Don't get me wrong - every gay person I've ever met has been great. I love my uncle and his partner. I consider his partner my uncle, as well. I don't think that it's right to force someone to live a way that they don't want to live and I know that it's impossible to make someone do what you want them to do. That's because we have free will. God gave it to us so that we could make these choices - so that homosexual people can choose whether or not to act upon those feelings. In my opinion, God made certain people homosexual because that was supposed to be their trial in life. That's supposed to be their huge obstacle and they're supposed to try and overcome this whole thing. Overall, in the end you need to be living righteously and living the Word of God. Acting upon (not BEING homosexual, but acting upon) those homosexual urges is where you don't live righteously. People can be gay and still live the Word of God. There are PLENTY of active gay Mormons out there that live righteously, hold callings, can attend the temple, etcetera. Being gay isn't something that you basically choose to become - acting upon being gay and having those feelings and urges is what you can control, something that you choose. THAT is what I think God will judge you for. I think that the way your parents are reacting to your cousin isn't necessarily right. However, if those are your parents' wishes then I suggest you obey them until you're old enough to make that decision yourself. Clearly things are supposed to happen this way. If you want to try and get them to change their minds then have a deep, honest, and kind discussion about these things. Try not to break out into an argument. In my experience, arguing with parents never changes their minds Haha. I hope that this helped, at least somewhat!
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Post by Andrew the Penguin on Mar 12, 2010 8:46:01 GMT -5
I think I heard a General Authority once say something along the lines of "Being gay is a sin. We should not treat it lightly, nor should we outright hate it."
...maybe it was someone on here.
I don't know.
But anyways, somewhere in the bible, it says that men should not be desirous of men, and women should not be desirous of women.
...I hope you can translate that correctly. XP
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Post by Jayda on Mar 12, 2010 11:57:03 GMT -5
You're right Andrew about the scriptures. But why would God make someone gay if they didn't have a chance to go back to him because just being gay alone is a sin? Being gay alone isn't a sin - it's ACTING upon those gay impulses that's a sin. Just like if I were to act upon my heterosexuality by going and sleeping with guys. I would be sinning. Now, acting upon gay impulses may be worse in the eyes of God - I don't know. I doubt, though, that God would say that BEING gay is a sin where as acting on being gay is, you know?
I think, if it was a General Authority, that they were talking about acting on it. Not being it. I'm not sure, though. I just don't understand why God would have people be born or develop gay impulses and such if it's automatically a sin and you can't control it, if that makes sense?
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Post by shadow on Mar 12, 2010 16:02:17 GMT -5
I think I heard a General Authority once say something along the lines of "Being gay is a sin. We should not treat it lightly, nor should we outright hate it." ...maybe it was someone on here. I don't know. But anyways, somewhere in the bible, it says that men should not be desirous of men, and women should not be desirous of women. ...I hope you can translate that correctly. XP They say that being gay in its self is not a sin, however acting upon those feelings is a sin, just like acting upon feelings with the opposite gender can be a sin as well.
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Post by Michael on Mar 12, 2010 16:45:20 GMT -5
I know a gay person over the internet, he told me later on that he was gay, he told others that we both knew.
Everyone else stop talking to him, becuse his gay, He wants to move to CA and find someone in college or something like that
I still talk to him, but I got to admit... no lately, not cuz his gay tho
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Post by hockeydude on Mar 13, 2010 16:50:58 GMT -5
Jayda touched on it before I did. It is not a sin to be gay, just to act upon your impulses. It's like any temptation really.
There's a lot of debate about whether being gay is something you are born with or a behavior you pick up. After taking a nice handful of social studies based classes, I believe the latter more. My belief is that while being gay is not intentionally learned, it is learned. It is similar to a behavior that has proven to be learned without people knowing it. Did you know that your body's reaction to hot and cold is learned?
A lot of people disagree with me about that and I respect that, but to me it makes sense. My mental notes have something along the lines of," if you find yourself struggling with homosexuality, please talk to your bishop or stake leader." (I read it somewhere, just can't remember where) If it was a genetic trait that couldn't be tampered with (the church isn't going to strap you down and torture it out), why would they bother to put this in there? Just a thought.
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Post by Jayda on Mar 13, 2010 17:29:55 GMT -5
I can see where you're coming from. I don't totally agree, though. I DO think that there are some people who choose it or learn it. But my uncle that's gay grew up in a strong Mormon household, fought with it his entire life (since he was a little boy, we now know) dated girls to try and get rid of those feelings, went on a mission, etcetera. He was surrounded by mostly heterosexuals. I think a part of your idea is true, but I think that a lot of people are born with it. You can't necessarily change that part of you. I mean, there are some people who are bisexual that can go for either gender, but I think that a good majority of homosexuals are born with it. It's a chemical thing in the brain - I don't think that you can control who you're attracted to. You can control what you do with those feelings and impulses, but I don't think that you can choose who you're attracted to.
I mean, I think it can go both ways, definitely. I just think that a majority of homosexuals are probably born with it.
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Post by begood2 on Mar 15, 2010 2:07:54 GMT -5
"In loco parentis" is Latin for "in place of a parent." A person or institution that assumes parental rights and duties for a minor.
The school has traditionally assumed parental rights and duties for the students. As responsible adults it was assumed that they would be able to use good judgment in providing an environment that would foster beneficial learning, with minimal distractions to inhibit it!
For a long time this authority was final, but in more recent times some of their decisions have been challenged and over turned by the court system.
Usually the public institutions are the first to have their decisions challenged and over turned by the court system when it is shown that it infringes on individual rights. In the link that Amber gave it referred to a Catholic school in Canada that was previously faced with a similar situation and their court system ordered the school to allow the two boys to go to the prom as dates and the school was not allowed to cancel the prom as an alternative!
I think that in the USA the private school would have a little more say in the matter because it isn't funded by public funds and the youth are not required to go there by law!
I'm not so sure if this issue is worth fighting over by the school system, but a number of people will argue that if you don't set limits here.....then where are you going to set them? If girls can cross dress wearing boys tuxedos ......what are you going to do about boys that want to wear prom dresses? What about the classroom dress code? Should everyone be allowed to wear whatever they want? Would it effect your ability to concentrate and learn in class if a third of the boys showed up in class wearing dresses and high heels?
I'm sure that there must be millions of reasons why some people are attracted to the same gender. I don't personally understand it, but never-the-less it happens! As several people have already stated .....the church accepts and understands that some people have a same gender attraction, but as long as they don't act upon these feeling they are not considered sinning and are welcome as members in good standing. As Jayda mentioned, even single heterosexual couples are not to act on their sexual feeling outside of marriage. The church teaches us that marriage is the union of one man to one woman and they have been fighting to preserve it that way!
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Post by Jayda on Mar 15, 2010 9:24:51 GMT -5
I don't think that i read that it was a private school. Had I known that, I probably would've backed up the school more Haha. I agree. Since it's a private school, it doesn't have to go by the public opinion. Parents can pull their kids out and send them to a different school if they don't like the way their kids are being treated. Good points!
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Post by begood2 on Mar 15, 2010 13:33:04 GMT -5
I don't think that i read that it was a private school. Had I known that, I probably would've backed up the school more Haha. I agree. Since it's a private school, it doesn't have to go by the public opinion. Parents can pull their kids out and send them to a different school if they don't like the way their kids are being treated. Good points! Sorry for the confusion......the school that Amber was talking about is a public school, but in the article, it talks about a couple of other schools that went through similar experiences. One such school was a Catholic high school: "The precedent on such cases was set in Canada in 2002. 17-year-old Marc Hall insisted that he be allowed to bring his 21-year-old boyfriend to the prom at his Catholic school. When the school refused to permit it, and canceled the prom rather than offend the school’s religious creed, homosexual activists made Hall into a cause célèbre, suing the school for $100,000. The Ontario English Catholic Teachers Union (OECTA) actively sided with Hall against Catholic education and Church authorities and intervened in the case. Over half the teachers in Monsignor John Pereyma Catholic Secondary School supported Hall's action. In an interim ruling on the day of the prom, Ontario Superior Court Justice Robert MacKinnon issued an injunction saying that Hall could not be forbidden from attending with his homosexual date and that the school was not permitted to cancel the prom. The prom took place as the court ordered without significant protest from Catholic authorities." There never was a final court ruling on the case because the boy went to the prom and dropped his court case after attending!
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Post by Jayda on Mar 15, 2010 14:44:28 GMT -5
Oh, I understand now It was a private school. That isn't fair, and I'm not even sure that's entirely right because the government can't control public schools. I'll have to ask my mom about this stuff and see what she thinks since she knows a lot more than I do!
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Post by Kohaku on Mar 15, 2010 20:20:30 GMT -5
the way i see it is god said hate the sin not the sinner ... sure its a sin to be gay but that doesn't mean we need to presecute them ... we can still be friends with that person and treat them normal like we would treat anyone else
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Post by Jayda on Mar 15, 2010 21:35:14 GMT -5
I live by "Hate the sin, not the sinner" as well. Being gay isn't the sin, it's acting on it. I agree though - we shouldn't treat them poorly because of the way they are, or live. We're not perfect. We shouldn't judge. God is the only person that can judge.
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Post by Andrew the Penguin on Mar 19, 2010 23:56:19 GMT -5
If being gay is not a sin, but acting upon the feelings is, and getting married in the temple to a spouse of opposite gender is a commandment, or at least highly reccomended, then why would God make people gay? Hmm? Isn't that the same thing as saying "Hey, you can't get married in the temple and you won't be able to love anyone of a different gender. I'm sorry, but now you can't go to the Celestial Kingdom."
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Post by Jayda on Mar 20, 2010 10:36:13 GMT -5
Andrew, one of the main points of "making" people gay is because they need that trial in their life for some reason. Why make someone addicted to alcohol or drugs when it could totally hinder them from getting to the Celestial Kingdom? It's a trial. My mom was an alcoholic before she joined the church but she quit and repented and now she won't be judged for that, UNLESS she acts upon it. They're expected to overcome it "unto perfection". Make sense?
I've heard of some people that are gay that have gotten married to the opposite gender in the church and have been in love with them and such. There's always going to be someone out there for you, despite being a homosexual or a heterosexual.
Just because you're gay doesn't mean that you can't get to the Celestial Kingdom. Wouldn't they be worse off if being gay was the sin rather then acting upon it, like you said?
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Post by hockeydude on Mar 20, 2010 13:05:30 GMT -5
I've heard of some people that are gay that have gotten married to the opposite gender in the church and have been in love with them and such. There's always going to be someone out there for you, despite being a homosexual or a heterosexual. I've actually seen this myself. I've never really asked them about it but even if they're attracted to the same gender I think they find a way to be okay with marrying someone they're best friends with. Or maybe after time they start to love their wife and become less homosexual. I don't know, just making guesses. I still believe there may be a way to change homosexuality. I've heard about it happening but only through rumors and stuff so I couldn't give you any facts.
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Post by Erik Slack on Mar 20, 2010 15:10:48 GMT -5
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Post by Andrew the Penguin on Mar 20, 2010 19:40:17 GMT -5
...>_> Becoming addicted to really anything is that person's own choice.
Erik... the fact your friends have experience in this subject kinda makes me laugh. XD
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Post by Jayda on Mar 20, 2010 22:00:46 GMT -5
Not entirely. There are people born with the genetics to become addicted. I have acohol, drug, and sex addiction in my genes, so if I try any guess what - I'm addicted. That first try is your choice, but afterward you're addicted. Anyway, gays can get to the Celestial Kingdom.
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Post by Andrew the Penguin on Mar 21, 2010 14:00:37 GMT -5
.......good point....
Alright. I admit defeat. XP
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Post by Erik Slack on Mar 21, 2010 17:54:45 GMT -5
My friends also know how to take care of impetuous 13 yr-olds kids...so watchit! Hehe, j/k.
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Post by Jayda on Mar 22, 2010 9:45:14 GMT -5
Hahahaha
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Post by Andrew the Penguin on Mar 25, 2010 19:14:04 GMT -5
XP Wow.
... *has to look the word Impetuous up*
0_o I rarely have to do that.
^_^ Yeah. That describes me pretty well.
D:< AND I'M THIRTEEN AND 5/6THS!!! PLUS 5 DAYS!! *grumbles*
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Post by Erik Slack on Apr 16, 2010 10:37:25 GMT -5
Lol, oops, sorry 'bout that.
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