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Post by shadow on Oct 15, 2009 19:21:31 GMT -5
Ok this occurred to me awhile ago and Ive just thought to share it with you all.
Ok the bible says that all wicked people shall be thrown into a lake of fire and brimstone, this has come to be know as the traditional Christian belief of hell, This obviously goes against our version of "hell" which is an icy cold place of pure darkness. In a lesson during church my teacher pointed out that no unclean thing can enter into any of the three kingdoms and he came to the conclusion that we all reached perfection during the millennium and were then judged to our respective kingdom. I think that the traditional version of heaven and hell is the spirit paradise and the spirit prison that we go to right after death and the knowledge of the three kingdoms was not yet revealed because people weren't ready to receive it. When I was thinking about this I thought of the refiners fire and how it got rid of impurities to make the metal pure. I figured that the term "lake of fire and brimstone" is used to describe everyone become perfect and not as a place of torture unless you have a lot of sins to overcome and the anguish your spirit feels because of this could be painful. do to withdrawals and all sorts of stuff like that.
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Post by ldsgirl Aka Sayari on Oct 16, 2009 4:06:46 GMT -5
Ok this occurred to me awhile ago and Ive just thought to share it with you all. Ok the bible says that all wicked people shall be thrown into a lake of fire and brimstone, this has come to be know as the traditional Christian belief of hell, This obviously goes against our version of "hell" which is an icy cold place of pure darkness. In a lesson during church my teacher pointed out that no unclean thing can enter into any of the three kingdoms and he came to the conclusion that we all reached perfection during the millennium and were then judged to our respective kingdom. I think that the traditional version of heaven and hell is the spirit paradise and the spirit prison that we go to right after death and the knowledge of the three kingdoms was not yet revealed because people weren't ready to receive it. When I was thinking about this I thought of the refiners fire and how it got rid of impurities to make the metal pure. I figured that the term "lake of fire and brimstone" is used to describe everyone become perfect and not as a place of torture unless you have a lot of sins to overcome and the anguish your spirit feels because of this could be painful. do to withdrawals and all sorts of stuff like that. Anything is possible. There are alot of explained mysteries out there. My goal ......with Heavenly Fathers help, is the Celestial Kingdom!
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Post by Equinox3100 on Apr 20, 2010 11:56:52 GMT -5
This actually makes sense, I'm still confused about the whole "Hell" thing.. Is it the outer darkness or is there that AND Hell?
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zenith
Youth of Zion
Come, and let us forge your armor, and let us wear it together, we will be ready in that last war.
Posts: 57
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Post by zenith on Apr 26, 2010 0:53:08 GMT -5
I can't remember who said it, but it was said that Hell is anywhere that God is not.
So, under that definition, we are in Hell, sorry to say.
Outer Darkness is where none of the Godhead are. This is where people that knew, not believed, knew about God and rejected him anyway.
Telestial kingdom is where rapists, murderers, and like like go. They have the Holy Ghost that is able to visit them. Only one member of the Godhead.
Terestial kingdom is where people that arnt bad, but not holy either. They are good people who rejected Christ when they had oppurtunity to hear of him. This is the domain of Jesus himself, as also the Holy Ghost.
The Celestial kingdom is where those who did, or would have, accepted Christ as their Saviour resign. They are Holy and good, forgiven of their sins, and glorious forever. This is the realm of God Himself, ruler over everything with Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. With the definition above, this is the only Heaven, while all other places are Hell
------------------------------------------------- Concerning refinement,
In D+C 88, it talks about how all wickidness and evil spirits would be trapped in a pit for a thousand years. This is how every evil spriit atones to get a body, as only Satan will never get a body.
I dont know if any of this helps, but i felt like it was important to say.
Zenith
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Post by Equinox3100 on Apr 26, 2010 14:53:32 GMT -5
I can't remember who said it, but it was said that Hell is anywhere that God is not. So, under that definition, we are in Hell, sorry to say. I do not believe that we are in Hell being that God does dwell in places of Earth as in ppl that are righteous and in churches (some more than others), point being that it is only Hell If you make it Hell for yourself..
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zenith
Youth of Zion
Come, and let us forge your armor, and let us wear it together, we will be ready in that last war.
Posts: 57
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Post by zenith on Apr 26, 2010 16:31:38 GMT -5
I probobly should have phrased it better.
I do mean that physically, without God here, we are in Hell.
Of course, to say you are living to have the spirit in your life, God is with you. We can't talk to God face to face, which is why we must pray. The Temple is also a place known to be the closest thing to Heaven. Should have phrased it better.
Zenith
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Post by Equinox3100 on Apr 26, 2010 19:31:56 GMT -5
I probobly should have phrased it better. I do mean that physically, without God here, we are in Hell. Of course, to say you are living to have the spirit in your life, God is with you. We can't talk to God face to face, which is why we must pray. The Temple is also a place known to be the closest thing to Heaven. Should have phrased it better. Zenith yes, yes you should have ^-^
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Post by shadow on Apr 27, 2010 20:38:15 GMT -5
I think that whoever saying that ment that without God everything is bad
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Post by Equinox3100 on Apr 28, 2010 5:54:20 GMT -5
Zenith was saying it, and I don't really know what he was saying, all that I had understood what he was saying was that we are already in Hell... I'm not calling this Hell.. I think Hell would be a LOT worse!
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xkyairax
Child Of God
I'm through accepting limits cause someone says they're so
Posts: 19
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Post by xkyairax on May 12, 2010 1:29:16 GMT -5
I believe in reincarnation.
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Post by Equinox3100 on May 12, 2010 10:38:31 GMT -5
I believe in reincarnation. I have my own connection to things, kinda like I also believe the Big Bang Theory happened, but God made it happen in order to create all the planets.. I'm not sure about reincarnation being that I don't fully understand how animals have a beating heart and a life.. so I am thinking that maybe the spirits that are earth bound go from animal to animal to find what business they need to finish and then finish it and "cross over"
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Post by Jayda on May 12, 2010 10:48:02 GMT -5
Well, reincarnation goes against God's Plan of Happiness and Salvation, I do believe.
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xkyairax
Child Of God
I'm through accepting limits cause someone says they're so
Posts: 19
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Post by xkyairax on May 12, 2010 11:01:04 GMT -5
Well, I figure that if you screw up enough God just might send you back here, Like try again,moron. I've studied a lot of religions. Its fantasying that no matter how different we all think our religions are they really aren't. You'b be surprised to see how much paganism and Catholicism have in common.
There is more than one way to skin a moose(poor moose) and there is more than one way to God.
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Post by Jayda on May 12, 2010 11:16:33 GMT -5
Oh, I totally agree that religions all generally have some stuff in common. I've studied different religions too, particularly when I was almost an atheist in a dark stage of my life, and they do have a lot in common. Regardless of what you believe, generally there's always a God involved, no matter what you call Him. Most/all religions have some truth to them.
However, if you're LDS you can't really believe in reincarnation because it does go against God's Plan. You get one chance in life and you have to deal with the consequences that come with your actions, whether they be good or bad. Thus why we need to live as "perfectly" as we can, though perfection is impossible unless you're Christ, our Redeemer.
So, are you specifically LDS, or do you believe in bits and pieces of Mormonism and other religions?
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Post by Equinox3100 on May 12, 2010 17:08:29 GMT -5
You get one chance in life and you have to deal with the consequences that come with your actions, whether they be good or bad. maybe (just maybe, not saying that it's true or anything cuz I really don't know) it is one of those bad concequences to where you are not worthy enough to wait in the "waiting areas" for his second return.. maybe animals are babies that were in the womb, but never born.. like I said I really don't know about reincarnation..
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Post by Jayda on May 12, 2010 21:29:11 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that the church has dismissed reincarnation. Babies that died before being eight years old and accountable automatically go to the Celestial Kingdom. Plus, animals, as far as I'm aware, won't be judged... so what would be the point of coming back as an animal if you died before the age of being accountable? Just saying
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Post by hockeydude on May 12, 2010 21:34:56 GMT -5
Jayda's right. Referring to the LDS faith, reincarnation doesn't fit into the plan of salvation. Theology interests me too, but just because a large number of religions believe in a doctrine doesn't mean it's correct. The reason we believe that we are the one and only true church is because our beliefs come from revelation from God, not from a man who sat down one day and had a good think.
I can't quote you the scripture but there's a passage in the scriptures that refers to the purposes of animals. I don't see how reincarnation could fit into any of those descriptions.
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Post by Equinox3100 on May 13, 2010 11:28:58 GMT -5
Jayda's right. Referring to the LDS faith, reincarnation doesn't fit into the plan of salvation. Theology interests me too, but just because a large number of religions believe in a doctrine doesn't mean it's correct. The reason we believe that we are the one and only true church is because our beliefs come from revelation from God, not from a man who sat down one day and had a good think. I can't quote you the scripture but there's a passage in the scriptures that refers to the purposes of animals. I don't see how reincarnation could fit into any of those descriptions. I'm just wondering how they live.. I don't exactly know how to explain it.. do animals have souls or what? :/
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Post by Jayda on May 13, 2010 11:31:47 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure. I've never looked into that. I wouldn't be surprised, but God made everything, including animals, so they do live, no matter how
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Post by Equinox3100 on May 13, 2010 11:34:50 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure. I've never looked into that. I wouldn't be surprised, but God made everything, including animals, so they do live, no matter how that's exactly what I want to find out is HOW..
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Post by Jayda on May 13, 2010 11:47:46 GMT -5
I'll look into it and get back to you
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Post by Equinox3100 on May 13, 2010 12:01:39 GMT -5
please do, I would actually like to know :]
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Post by shadow on May 13, 2010 17:27:51 GMT -5
Everything was created spiritually before it was physically, so yes animals have souls and will probly be risen up when we are
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Post by shadow on May 13, 2010 17:31:40 GMT -5
I believe in reincarnation. never thought that would be brought up on this thread lol yeah it doesnt fit in with the plan of salvation, Ill take it that your either a nonmember or you dont go to church often and dont listen to the lessons, Dont claim to be a member unless youve been baptised
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Post by hockeydude on May 13, 2010 21:18:59 GMT -5
I believe in reincarnation. never thought that would be brought up on this thread lol yeah it doesnt fit in with the plan of salvation, Ill take it that your either a nonmember or you dont go to church often and dont listen to the lessons, Dont claim to be a member unless youve been baptised I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Just because someone has an opinion or belief of something that isn't in line with the church doesn't make them a bad member. It's great to think and really ponder about things. It's just when you take the action to do something to harm the church, then there's something wrong. (Example: Several members have homosexual friends and are okay with same-sex marriage. That's their opinion. But when something like Proposition 8 comes up, an actual action for something contrary to the church, then the church needs to step in for what it believes. Comprende?) Personally I don't think it's that outrageous of a belief. I don't think it's the truth but it's one of those things where there is at least some logic behind it. I've heard some bizarre things that just...I have to look away just to keep myself from laughing.
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Post by Equinox3100 on May 14, 2010 10:54:22 GMT -5
Everything was created spiritually before it was physically, so yes animals have souls and will probly be risen up when we are but which souls? souls like ours or what? and HOW?!
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Post by Jayda on May 14, 2010 13:59:39 GMT -5
Snap! I've been busy, so I forgot to look into it. I'll try and check it out asap today and let you know!
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Post by shadow on May 14, 2010 14:36:02 GMT -5
never thought that would be brought up on this thread lol yeah it doesnt fit in with the plan of salvation, Ill take it that your either a nonmember or you dont go to church often and dont listen to the lessons, Dont claim to be a member unless youve been baptised I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Just because someone has an opinion or belief of something that isn't in line with the church doesn't make them a bad member. It's great to think and really ponder about things. It's just when you take the action to do something to harm the church, then there's something wrong. (Example: Several members have homosexual friends and are okay with same-sex marriage. That's their opinion. But when something like Proposition 8 comes up, an actual action for something contrary to the church, then the church needs to step in for what it believes. Comprende?) Personally I don't think it's that outrageous of a belief. I don't think it's the truth but it's one of those things where there is at least some logic behind it. I've heard some bizarre things that just...I have to look away just to keep myself from laughing. I didnt mean to insult anyone, it just wouldve been easier for me to understand why if I knew.
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Post by Equinox3100 on May 14, 2010 22:27:51 GMT -5
I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Just because someone has an opinion or belief of something that isn't in line with the church doesn't make them a bad member. It's great to think and really ponder about things. It's just when you take the action to do something to harm the church, then there's something wrong. (Example: Several members have homosexual friends and are okay with same-sex marriage. That's their opinion. But when something like Proposition 8 comes up, an actual action for something contrary to the church, then the church needs to step in for what it believes. Comprende?) Personally I don't think it's that outrageous of a belief. I don't think it's the truth but it's one of those things where there is at least some logic behind it. I've heard some bizarre things that just...I have to look away just to keep myself from laughing. I didnt mean to insult anyone, it just wouldve been easier for me to understand why if I knew. I didn't even see that you DID insult anyone.. at least it doesn't look like it to me.. of course I probably would have said it the same way.. (my bluntness and everything..) :/ sometimes things just come out the wrong way
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Post by Equinox3100 on May 14, 2010 22:28:42 GMT -5
Snap! I've been busy, so I forgot to look into it. I'll try and check it out asap today and let you know! it's okay :] look into it when you have time.. it's not of major importance so I understand you getting side tracted and everything ;D
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